Obama's Christianity (indeed)
June 28th 2008 16:43
Much ado has been made of Barack Obama and his quasi-religious beliefs. His "core religious principles" apparently consist of praying that nobody will notice how foolish he sounds while trying to convince us that he's a Christian. Even if he were to spit his feet out long enough to actually try to make sense, it wouldn't work. He approves of abortion and voted to prevent any survivors of partial birth abortions from staying alive. Regardless of whether you like the murder of the pre-born or not, can you honestly approve of intentionally killing a baby who has been delivered alive (in spite of the mother's wishes and the "doctors best efforts?") Obama voted in favor of it. I seem to recall something in the Bible about "Thou shalt not kill." In spite of his recent assertions that most people don't really read their Bibles (perhaps he means that the liberal Supreme Court hasn't yet "found" things in the Bible like what they "found" in the US Constitution). I'm sure he plans, as president, to see to it that the "appropriate changes" are made in the Bible, via his choices for the Supreme Court bench.
It wasn't that long ago that he spoke with disdain about middle Americans clinging to their guns and their Bibles, as they indulge in homophobic and xenophobic behavior. It seems pretty obvious that the Bibles he mentions in the hands of Americans aren't the same ones he pretends to read and follow.
"Christians for Obama" are no different than "Jews for Hitler" or "Infidels for Islam" or "Victims for Criminals" if you really think about it, folks.
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It wasn't that long ago that he spoke with disdain about middle Americans clinging to their guns and their Bibles, as they indulge in homophobic and xenophobic behavior. It seems pretty obvious that the Bibles he mentions in the hands of Americans aren't the same ones he pretends to read and follow.
"Christians for Obama" are no different than "Jews for Hitler" or "Infidels for Islam" or "Victims for Criminals" if you really think about it, folks.
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Comment by Anonymous
Comment by S.L.
The Political Brief
It is decidedly UN-Christian to approve of killing innocents for the convenience of others. Yes, you can take details out of context from the Bible and attempt to justify anything. But that doesn't make it right and it doesn't make Obama a real Christian.
Comment by Morgan Bell
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what did he actually vote on?
Comment by S.L.
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Comment by Morgan Bell
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but i do agree with you that Obama is undoubtedly pro-choice
have you seen this collection of quotes before?
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do you really think that being pro-choice prevents people from being considered christian?
Comment by S.L.
The Political Brief
As for the saline abortions, oh yeah they're so much nicer and gentler. The full term baby is scalded with saline as it's eyes mouth, throat, nose, etc. are burned. Sometimes they're still alive and squirming when they're "born." Of course, no one has to hear them scream, their throats are burned by the saline. The "mother" gets to feel her baby thrashing around as it suffers and dies so that she isn't inconvenienced by allowing it to live.
Do I think that anyone who supports such atrocious behavior can call themselves a Christian? Are you kidding? I don't they have any business calling themselves "human beings."
Comment by Lester Caudill
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Comment by S.L.
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Comment by Anonymous
Comment by Anonymous
Comment by S.L.
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DNA is really a gift from God, Anonymous. It convicts the guilty and exhonerates the innocent. If there is no doubt whatsoever that someone is guilty of heinous crimes, don't you think they should pay? Don't you believe they should never, ever be allowed to do it again? As long as they're alive, there is a chance that some idiot on a bench will turn them loose.
On the other hand, the totally innocent babies that are killed every day all over the world... God created them, too. And they have not chosen to do wrong. They are no threat to society. They are merely an inconvenience to selfish women and a profit for "hitmen m.d.'s"
Comment by Anonymous
Comment by S.L.
The Political Brief
Bush didn't lie us into a war. Muslim's took our planes and killed 3000 innocent people. We fought back. Ever hear of 9/11?
Bush believes that kids need to learn to read ("No Child Left Behind") and get an education so they don't have to live in poverty. (Unlike the libs/dems who like to keep the poor folks down and begging and voting for them). Tell me, Anonymous, do you have a job? Do you work for a person who owns a company or a business? Or maybe you work for someone on welfare... It's the business owners who provide jobs, who keep the economy going. Not the Welfare State. Punitive taxes only make politicians feel important, they don't actually do good for anyone else.
Actually, you're a great example of a liberal, Anonymous. You obviously are ashamed of yourself and have to hide behind a misnomer (sort of like the liberals swearing that they're "centrists" because they're ashamed to admit how liberal they really are. )You make stupid accusations and hurl insults left and right, all to prove how "compassionate" you are, when you only care about being a good liberal and not the damage your failed philosophy does.
Comment by S.L.
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Comment by Don Lee
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Comment by S.L.
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Comment by S.L.
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Here's a link to another Orble post that got a great deal of attention on the subject of abortion. For those of you who haven't seen it before, you might find it enlightening.
Comment by WOW!!
Comment by S.L.
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Comment by Obama is an Idiot
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Comment by Judge Not
A further example would be for a vegetarian to say that others are wicked and sinful for eating meat. God din't say man should ONLY be vegetarian or ONLY be meat eaters... therefore it is wrong to start hating others for your own beliefs... that is judging others. It is breeding hate and spite for no other motive than to serve your own opinion and agenda. Again abortion is murder by medical, dictionary and biblical definition (to end life prematurely) and in the bible it refers to "life starts in the womb" as well as describing pregnant women as "being with child" etc. (as per SL's link provided in one of her comments) so it is obvious that God regards the unborn as children and most definitely LIFE.
When the word of God states clearly what is right or wrong and Christians agree and try to teach others it is not "judging" but educating as how Christian are supposed to behave.
Comment by S.L.
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Comment by Morgan Bell
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partial birth abortions account for 0.3% of cases, some are due to severe cases of a common fetal condition called hydrocephalus (fluid on the babies brain) where they would have died anyway and never gained consciousness, or to remove a fetus that has already died or is badly malformed or with serious genetic defect, not always just for the health of the mother
you are right in saying that ceasarian sections are another option in third trimester, but with ceasarians comes a greater risk of complications and a higher mortality rate of the mother
third trimester abortions should be limited to cases involving the potential death or serious disability of the woman, if doctors are performing late abortions where the fetus is healthy and the mother is not in danger they are doing the wrong thing
Comment by S.L.
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Comment by Anne Tootill
You believe so strongly that you are right and leave no room for debate.
You are unbelievable.
Comment by Lester Caudill
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Comment by S.L.
The Political Brief
Anne, sorry if I scare you, but the truth is you scare me. How many of your children did you kill because they were inconvenient? How many babies died because you changed your mind about letting them live?
If you answer with a number, it makes sense that you would be so intent on convincing others (and yourself) that killing children is acceptable behavior. If you answer by saying that you have never murdered one of your children, it makes me wonder how you could think it's such a good thing.
It's the liberal way, I guess, to concentrate on all the wrong things. Changing the names of victims to protect the murderers is one of their favorite ploys. Some people would have trouble taking the life of a fellow human being, but have no problem once the potential victim is renamed (such as "Nigger" or "Spic" or "Infidel", or "Fetus".) As long as the focus is on the perpetrator and the victim is ignored, they're happy. Does that describe you, Anne? Do you concentrate on the "choice" until you manage to forget that it's a human being who dies to give that "choice?"
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Comment by Norm
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I'd like to see these mothers face the death penalty.
Comment by Cibbuano
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I don't think there's any rational being that loves the idea of abortion, as if killing babies is hilarious fun. No, it's a serious, emotionally-crippling scenario. It's a terrible thing for a woman to go through, and it's a scar you carry for life.
Why we are pro-choice is that, I think, we understand that, no matter what the law says, women are going to seek out abortions for a variety of reasons. In places where abortion is illegal, there are still huge numbers of the procedures.
For example, the BBC suggests that, in Brazil, where it is illegal, there are 1-2 million abortions every year, and Peru has a higher rate of abortion than the US, despite it being illegal.
All we are saying, as pro-choice supporters, is, let's give women the best possible medical care and the best possible education.
As for Obama's stance, I have to admit that, so far, I find it hard to disagree with him. Lately, I wonder if he'll stay on the mark.
As for McCain, in 1999, he said, on CNN, that he'd like to see Roe v Wade irrelevant, but "he does not support a repeal of Roe v Wade in the short or even long term"
Here's the link to McCain saying it.
Comment by S.L.
The Political Brief
Cibbuano, do your beliefs in being pro-choice include the individual "rights" to smoke cigarettes in public? Just curious, most people who claim to be "pro-choice" limit that to the killing of pre-born children. On all their other pet peeves, they don't permit any choices at all. How about drug use? Shall we accompany users to the dealers and test the "products" to be sure they aren't contaminated before supplying sterile needles (just to make sure they're safe and protected, of course!) And what of kiddie pron? Isn't that also the "choice" of perverts to watch?Shall we have special, comfy little theatrers for them to indulge their fantasies? Maybe we could even let them have some of the babies who survived partial birth abortions to play with. After all, Obama says they aren't entitled to live if the "mother" wants them dead. Why not keep these surviving "unviable lumps of tissue" alive for the entertainment and exercise of "free choice" for pedophiles? My point here, Cibbuano, is that making sure that doing wrong is "safe, rare and legal" still doesn't make it right. Killing children is wrong. Period.
Since you haven't found anything wrong with Obama yet, I can only surmise that you haven't been paying much attention to what he says, and re-says, and alters, and doesn't know, and didn't know, and flat out lies about. Perhaps you'd not be so thrilled with him if you paid attention instead of allowing yourself to be mesmerized by his "silver tongue" and script writers.
Comment by Norm
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Comment by S.L.
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Comment by Norm
Consumption Malfunction
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Comment by S.L.
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Comment by Norm
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Comment by S.L.
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Comment by alt_ed
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Abortion may not be the best solution when it comes to unwanted pregnancy, no matter what the scenario may be- but let’s look at some of the other ‘solutions’ shall we?
- the child is put up for adoption, due to complications during the birth (his mum was only 11) the child sustained permanent brain damage and disablement. Left to the state the find him a loving home, he ended up being permanently institutionalised on his 18birthday as a suitable home was never found.
- the child (a product of rape) is kept by her mother, sadly her mum wasn’t strong enough to cope with this trauma and the child is raised in a home where she was subjected to both physical and emotional abuse. This child then falls pregnant at a young age ant the cycle continues.
- the mother, despite her worsening health carries her child to full term. Both mother and child die during delivery and the family that could have been never has a chance.
Obviously, these are completely biased examples, and ultimately lack the sufficient evidence on my part to be taken too seriously… though I do feel that your persistent incoherent postings do call for a simplified reply!
Comment by Anonymous
He's entitled to them, but he's also got to realize that when he steps out in the public arena that's going to be a lot less impressed with his transcendental liberal New England mushy way of looking at things. He's got to be more specifically firm. While I might not agree with all the pounding he's getting from the likes of Jim Dobson, whom I believe to be extremely exclusivistic and narrow-minded in many ways, I'm not altogether happy with Obama's fuzzy wuzzy approach towards clear moral issues like abortion and embryonic stem cell research.
And I'm becoming more leery as to how he'll approach education issues in years to come given the ideological and pedagogical leanings of his supporters. Please, no more Barneys in the classrooms. When I hear liberals say "I'm for the kids" and use fuzzy logic, I see Barney sneaking in the classroom door.
And that' what many years of liberal New England Congregationalist thinking has led to. /s
Comment by S.L.
The Political Brief
Baby is murdered and the mother dies of complications from the "procedure."
Baby is murdered and the mother is left sterile (after a hysterectomy). She remembers her one chance at motherhood when she grows up and how she murdered her only child. Goes crazy.
Baby is born healthy and turns out to be the greatest blessing her family could have hoped for.
The point is, alt_ed, when there's life, there's hope. The baby deserves to have a future. Your mother allowed you to be born, didn't she?
Comment by S.L.
The Political Brief
He's a fan of Affirmative Action, too and hasn't noticed that it usually fails those it was intended to "help." I wouldn't want to see him as the principal of a grade school, much less any higher office!
Comment by alt_ed
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She chose to abort one pregnancy because at that point in time she was not capable of raising a child in the situation she found herself in.
my point being abortion isn't right for everyone, and i don't think people should be 'forced' into it, BUT i do respect a woman's right to chose. my feelings are that the window of time in which an abortion can be performed could be lessened.
basically S.L. i just don't get your rational on many of the issues you pose here on orble. perhaps it is from your life experiences or lack of that contribute to your deadline and stale opinion.
Do you honestly believe your the model of a perfect moral beacon? I'm sure you've not ever done a 'thing' wrong in your life right? no regrets?
At the end of the day, and by your own omission you have said you hate woman that have abortions YET you have estranged yourself from your son? Why terminate and embryo eh, when you can have twice the fun turing your back on them post-birth! Oh the joys of motherhood
Comment by Anne Tootill
You had a shot at anonymous about hiding behind his name.
What's your real name SL?
Comment by S.L.
The Political Brief
No matter what sugar coating you use when you talk about abortion, you're still talking about the murder of an innocent child. Governments can give all sorts of "rights" to people, but only God has the right to decide who lives and who dies.
As for my "experience or lack of", I have grandchildren your age and have been through things that would curl your teeth, alt_ed. Maybe that's what makes me so determined to fight for the rights of those that society wants to throw away.
Have I made mistakes? Yes, everyone has. Killing your children doesn't solve the problem or erase the mistakes. It's a permanent solution to a temporary problem, just like suicide or killing someone because they made you angry. Maybe someday you'll understand that when you have a few more experiences.
Comment by S.L.
The Political Brief
What's your real name Anne?
Comment by alt_ed
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I respect religion and peoples beliefs so long as those beliefs are not the basis for the governing state. I don't see how the bible is relevant in much of todays society, though do admire that it can provide strength to many in times of hardship.
S.L. if you pity my sister you are obviously to arrogant of mind to comprehend the decision she made. You're respect is what she deserves, and you her PITY!
Comment by Anne Tootill
Every post of mine on Orble shows my name Anne Tootill
Comment by S.L.
The Political Brief
As for you alt_ed, your sister still has my pity. I reserve respect for those who earn it. Not killing her first child would have been a thing worthy of respect. taking the easy way out wasn't. I have no illusions about being God, alt_ed. But I do believe in standing up for what is right and for the Bible. It's as relevant today as it has always been. Only those who prefer to flaunt it seem to find it irrelevant and out of place in the "modern world." God is very much alive, and He's watching all of us.
Comment by Anne Tootill
I wish you would reach out to your sister who aborted her twins, she is just a mere mortal like the rest of us trying to get by as best she can. To deprive her of your company must have compounded her misery.
I really believe in love and forgiveness and the old addage that everyone deserves a second chance.
Comment by S.L.
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Comment by alt_ed
Alted Opinion
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If you're writing was anymore a contradiction, you yourself would be a contraception
Comment by S.L.
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