Obama's Brand of "Christianity"
March 4th 2008 03:25
For those of you who don't think I use links often enough, here's a dandy for you to check out. Barak Obama has explained about his particular (and peculiar) brand of "Christianity" in his own words. He seems to think the Sermon on the Mount gave Jesus' approval to same sex marriage and that the other parts of the Bible which speak against it are "obscure." He thinks that approving of abortion doesn't make him less of a Christian. Maybe he's right. First you have to actually BE a Christian in order to be "less of one."
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I personally agree with Obama's opinions on these two issues. I don't believe that same-sex unions should be called "marriage" - that is defined as a man and a woman. I do believe that they should be afforded legal rights if they choose to live in a committed relationship, whether I agree with the morality of that type of relationship or not.
In the same respect, while I don't believe that abortion is "right," I DO believe in a woman's right to choose. Now, the part of the article about Obama's opposition to a bill that "defined as a "person" a baby who had survived an induced-labor abortion and was born alive," I would have to disagree with his decision. I'm not quite sure what Roe v. Wade specifies as a limit in terms of gestational age - but if a fetus is able to live outside the womb, it should be afforded the rights of any live person.
I AM a Christian. I AM devout in my faith. I believe that any personal decisions I make about my lifestyle are between ME and GOD. It is not for me to judge how anyone else lives their life, and it is not for the governement to judge those types of personal decisions that don't cause harm to anyone else either.
I have done my best to teach my children to live their lives in a manner pleasing to God, which would include living a heterosexual lifestyle, and avoiding abortion. Still, I have taught them not to judge others for the decisions they've made, and to treat everyone as they'd like to be treated. Afterall, we only have to pay for our own sins.
I applaud Barack Obama for standing up for his opinions on these issues. (But I'm still voting for Hillary Clinton!)
Comment by tlcorbin
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How can you possibly believe that you shouldn't judge others? Christ took a whip and scourged money changers at the temple for turning it into something other than a place of worship: Aren't we supposed to follow his example, in this case, he was very judgmental.
Your argument is flawed and I doubt your faithfulness. Didn't Christ tell you to be hot or cold, or he'd spit you out of his mouth for being luke warm. Sigh.... Based upon your words, Pol Pot, Stalin, Hitler, Idi Amin, Castro, hey Charlie Manson needs a roommate, any of these people can move into your house or neighborhood? What about some Crips, Hells Angels or some other group with less than a savory history?
Christ always made considered judgments and took a deliberate stand against those things he knew to be contrary to God's law. Where does that leave you? Milk toast.
Comment by S.L. Bradish
Since you can't make up your mind about who is "judgmental" and who is "milk toast", perhaps you aren't too sure of where you stand on anything. It seems quite easy for you to always play the "devil's advocate" and it's been my experience that "devil's advocates" either believe in nothing or don't know what they think about anything.
DeAnne, if you're interested in knowing what Jesus really said, you can always look in the Bible. For a quicker way to learn, you might try a blog I stumbled on awhile back. It provides chapter and verse (literally) to answer all your biblical questions. You might do well to check it out, too, tlcorbin. www.hiddeneternaltreasures.com
Comment by tlcorbin
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What a marvelously convenient coincidence, I call you, “judgmental, emotional, vitriolic, pernicious, ignorant and thoughtless,” and, amazingly, you persist upon proving me correct. Alrighty then, let’s have a whack at sorting out your confusion; I hope it’s not a result of early onset Alzheimer’s or anything else equally annoyingly.
First let’s establish a pithy definition for, ‘devout Christian,’ e.g., an earnest follower of Christ, and his example displayed and played out during the course of his time on earth, works for me. DeAnne can make her own definition.
So, by example, “Christ tells you (us) to be hot or cold, or he'd spit you (us) out of his mouth for being luke warm,” Rev 3:14-22. Keep this in mind we’ll return to it in a moment. DeAnne and Christians in general need to quit being non judgmental and follow the example set for them.
During the start of Pass Over he (Christ), demonstrated judgmental behavior; “and when he had made a scourge of small cords, he drove them all out of the temple, and the sheep, and the oxen; and poured out the changers' money, and overthrew the tables,” John 2:15-16. How is that for creating a very emotional response?
So, you ask, “What exactly were you appealing to with the use of the names of Pol Pot, Hitler, et al? Those names create very emotional responses.” A devout and earnest follower of Christ would know that he/she is to judge themselves and others as he (Christ) demonstrated or he would have petitioned the money changers to leave the temple rather than to flog their butts and drive them out. That signifies action, not milk toast passivity.
Having come to an appropriate decision that the behavior of the aforementioned despot’s and murderers is/was wrong, and she (De Anne) should demonstrate the level of righteous anger that Christ was capable of manifesting. And she is admonished and responsible to teach her children to do the same. So, by inference, if they (evil and vile persons) try to move in next door, run the country or date her children, she must take a stand and say NO, it’s biblical. Rev 3:14-22 applies here. (Scourging or even spanking despotic wankers will get you arrested now because milk toast Christian's won’t judge anything and their miserable lives illustrate the point).
Now let’s establish a pithy definition for, ‘devils advocate,’ e.g., in common English or parlance, a devil's advocate is someone who takes a position for the sake of argument.
Am I playing devil’s advocate? Not is this lifetime. Am I being judgmental? Yes, I am. Having been admonished to do so by my understanding of Christ’s example, and his mandates!
The arguments I have presented are accurate SLB and sic, I do more than read the word, I study it; that is when I am not at my prayer rug plotting to usurp all of Christendom, as you have suggested in the past. Apparently my quest and studies have been ongoing far longer than yours has SLB.
As for DeAnne, she is instructed also to study, II Timothy 2:15 admonishes, “Study to show yourself approved unto God, a workman that needs not to be ashamed, rightly dividing the word of truth.” Because ultimately DeAnne is responsible for knowing the word, teaching it to her children, family and for acting upon it.
Raven
Comment by S.L. Bradish
I feel sorry for you.
Comment by DeAnne
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I agree with your definition of "devout Christian": an earnest follower of Christ, and his example displayed and played out during the course of his time on earth.
Your appllication of the definition, however, leaves me sad.
Romans 15:7 Accept one another, then, just as Christ accepted you, in order to bring praise to God.
Matthew 7:1,2 Do not judge, or you too will be judged. For in the same way you judge others, you will be judged, and with the measure you use, it will be measured to you.
Matthew 22:37-40 Jesus replied:";Love the Lord you God with all your heart and with all your soul and with all your mind.' This is the first and greatest commandment. And the second is like it: 'Love your neighbor as yourself.' All the Law and the Prophets hang on these two commandments."
Micah 6:8 He has showed you, O man, what is good. And what does the Lord require of you? To act justly and to love mercy and walk humbly with your God.
I never said I condoned homosexuality or abortion. What I said was, I don't push my own personal values on others - what they do is between them and God, just as what I do is between me and God. I don't judge them, because it is not my place to do so. I accept everyone with love, because that is what my Lord commanded me to do.
In the case of Hitler, and the others you mentioned, it is different. They caused harm to others. Of course there should be punishment for that. Just as there should be for anyone who harms others.
I'm sure that you will come back with how abortion is causing harm to others, and as I said before, I don't condone the behavior. I believe it is wrong. I believe it should be illegal when the fetus would be able to live outside the womb. I personally believe than anyone who has an abortion, simply as a means of birth control, will have to answer to God. I don't think they should have to answer to the government too.
I know my reply will in no way convince any of you that I am right, and I don't care. I'm not trying to be right, I'm just stating my opinion on a topic. I'm not judging you either. I would appreciate if you don't judge me, but your judgment means nothing to me. Just know that people can be devout Christians, even if they don't agree with you and your personal beliefs.
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DeAnne, I am certain that you believe me to be attacking you, I am not. What I am doing is presenting you with areas of your walk with Christ that require redress and I am not in the habit of being wishy washy about the matter. By the way, your understanding of the verses you quote is flawed, only enough to cause you to miss the mark.
As always SL, you remain the delightful retch that you are and I adore you for it.
Raven
Comment by DeAnne
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I made it clear that I would speak out against murder of a living, breathing person - which I think that terrorist scenario would include. Yes, murder is and should be illegal, and murderers should be punished.
I respect your beliefs and I'm not judging. I'm not telling you that because you don't believe the same as I, that you must not be as good a Christian as I am. I'm not telling you that because you don't get the same meaning out of scripture verses that I do, your understanding of them is flawed or wrong. You have every right to believe what you do. You don't have a right to force your beliefs on others, and neither do I.
As for the statement that my "understanding of the verses I quote is flawed," that is your opinion. You can quote scriptures that you feel back up your point, and I can quote scriptures that I feel back up mine. The truth is, each of us only has to answer to God. You don't have to answer for my sins, and I don't have to answer for yours.
Comment by tlcorbin
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I won't persist with further debate, you are correct; it's your life to live and yours to be to judged for later. It's been a pleasure fussing with you.
Raven
Comment by S.L. Bradish
Go practice your hipocracy elsewhere.
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Odd, I actually found some relevance to a few of your posts. It must be the medications kicking in. Raven
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As for you Jeffy boy, you'll be obsolete long before Christianity is. Oh, sorry, to be obsolete, you had to fulfill a function... that leaves you out, doesn't it?